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S3E32: Sammy Nickalls Wants You to be In Control of How You Feel On and Offline

In this episode, Sammy talks about her book, Log Off: Self-Helf for the Extremely Online, her experience with work-life balance, and her take on social media.
Sammy Nickalls Wants You to be In Control of How You Feel On and Offline

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Show Notes

Sammy joins us today to talk about her book, Log Off: Self-Help for the Extremely Online, her experience with work-life balance, and her take on social media. We discuss the hashtag she created, #TalkingAboutIt, and how Sammy is using this to help spread mental health awareness. We explore how social media can impact your well-being, how you can begin to be more mindful of your time online, and how to assess the value your time online brings to your life. We also talk about the nature of addiction and tech design, digital detoxing, and the pendulum swing of extremes of essentially binging and fasting technology. 

S3 Ep 32 Sammy Nickalls Wants You to be In Control of How You Feel On and Offline

In this episode you will hear: 

  • Social media and mental health
  • What makes someone “Extremely Online”
  • Steps toward digital minimalism
  • How fear drives addiction
  • Using the Freedom app to help disconnect from unhealthy tech habits
  • One tip from Log Off

Sammy is the author of Log Off: Self-Helf for the Extremely Online, which has been featured in outlets such as Teen Vogue and NPR. She is also the creator of the hashtag #TalkingAboutIt and tweets about mental health and recovery.

Find Sammy’s book, Log Off: Self-Help for the Extremely Online, on Amazon.

Connect with Sammy:

Website: sammynickalls.com

Email: sammynickalls@gmail.com

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/sammynickalls

Twitter: twitter.com/sammynickalls

Connect with R Blank and Stephanie Warner: 

For more Healthier Tech Podcast episodes, and to download our Healthier Tech Quick Start Guide, visit https://HealthierTech.co and follow https://instagram.com/healthiertech

Additional Links:

Transcript

Sammy Nickalls 0:00
One key thing that I mentioned in the book that is the first step and the most important step in digital minimalism, which is paying attention to how you feel when you’re on social media, and if you’re feeling negatively or bad in any way, logging off, and that’s really the first step.

Announcer 0:21
Welcome to the healthier tech podcast, the show about building a healthier relationship with modern technology. Now, here are your hosts, R blank and Stephanie Warner.

R Blank 0:33
So this interview is Sammy covers a lot of really fantastic round, totally about healthier tech park that I think listeners are going to really like is the her view on the difference between digital minimalism and digital detox and where she’s a fan of one and not the other.

Stephanie Warner 0:50
Yeah, absolutely. And I just want to say, overall, this interview, I’m really excited for our listeners to hear it. There’s so much great information. And I personally really resonated with her message and about the significance of, you know, rolling back our digital consumption, and you know, how to curate our online experience, and all the benefits to doing so.

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R Blank 1:12
Great. So let’s get into it.

Stephanie Warner 1:14
All right, sounds good.

R Blank 1:18
Sammy Nickalls is a writer and editor whose works have been featured in Adweek Esquire, observer, self, vice, and vulture, Sammy also created the hashtag talking about it, where she tweets about mental health and recovery. Most recently, she offered the book log off Self Help for the extremely online, which we’ll learn about on today’s show. Welcome, Sammy to the healthier tech podcast. Thank you.

Sammy Nickalls 1:42
Thank you so much for having me. Happy to be here.

R Blank 1:45
Okay, so to start and forgive me in advance if this is an oversimplification, but I understand this journey of yours that we’re going to be talking about today, all started when you decided to give up social media for six months. So two parter what what triggered a change like that? And what did you learn from it?

Sammy Nickalls 2:03
Well, first of all, I had some health issues that led me to realise that I really needed to slow down and simplify my life, I had been working really hard, too hard, and also been online constantly. And the line started to blur between my work life and personal life, because so much of my work life depended on being online. So I just kind of let my life come to a halt for a second I turned off or disabled, my social media accounts for about six months. And the change that I felt was just immense. And that wasn’t even what led to the book. It just so happened that my editor reached out to me asking about this topic. And I was like, wow, this is just like fate coming together. So yeah, that’s the some of it.

R Blank 2:51
So and I understand that I don’t know if this was immediately after you came out of your your social media fast. But at some point, you decided to delete your Instagram and Facebook and only maintain a Twitter account. And so we’re about to get into to another theme here. But just quickly, I’m wondering why you chose Twitter as the platform to keep the people I know, because I’m not on social media, either. But the people I know who are on Instagram, say it’s the most positive experience of those three. So I’m wondering, you know, how did you make that decision?

Sammy Nickalls 3:20
Well, I a big part of it had to do with following count, I knew that I needed to still promote my book on something, even though arguably, I would say that Twitter is can be the most destructive out of your mental health. People are just freely angry on there. But I decided that when I was doing kind of the little plan that’s in logoff, because there’s like a plan for kind of reintegrating platforms to see what each one adds to your life, I realised that my Facebook was adding nothing at all, it was just stressing me out. And it was allowing, like, just like some toxic sort of conversation to happen around politics and stuff that just stressed me out. So I got rid of that. And I realised that Instagram for me, and this isn’t for everyone, I know that a lot of people actually get a lot of value out of Instagram and view it as like the most positive platform out of the majority of them. But for me, it just kind of was stressing me out in terms of body image sort of stuff, there was all these pictures of people looking perfect and only showing the highlights of their life. And that’s great. You know, I think it’s great for people to be positive but for me, I just found myself kind of scrolling through these, this feed and looking at my stories and just getting more and more stressed out feeling more FOMO feeling more that I needed to do more and be more and I realised that the key to being content is realising that you are enough in the moment and Instagram wasn’t doing that for me. If it was fostering kind of shallow connections, so I realised that was adding nothing to my life, either. So it was relatively recently that I deleted my Facebook and Instagram a few months ago. And I do not regret it at all. And it also makes me feel a little bit less guilty for spending more time on Twitter, because that’s the only platform that I use. And I still sometimes slip with that where I find myself doing scrolling. So you got to forgive yourself when that happens, because that’s only human.

R Blank 5:29
So you’re known for for creating the hashtag talking about it. What inspired you to Well, what did you say a little about what it is? And then what inspired you to come up with it?

Sammy Nickalls 5:42
Yeah, that was back in, I think it was 2015. And it was before I really had become extremely online, quote, unquote. And I was having a hard time with my mental health. And I remember just kind of lying in the couch. Or rather, I think it was lying in bed and just feeling really depressed and felt like I couldn’t really do anything. And then I saw a tweet from somebody who said that they had a cold, and they were lying on the couch, just watching Hallmark all day. And I realised, what is the difference between having a cold and being depressed? Like, why do I feel? Why would I feel ashamed to say that I am lying in bed all day, because I’m depressed. So I tried tweeting about it and said, You know, I’m going to use this hashtag talking about it, if you want to join, you can feel free to join me and maybe we can, you know, make kind of like just a little section of the Internet where people can remember that. It’s not all just about highlights that everybody has, you know, kind of dips in their life, whether you you have like a quote unquote mental illness or not, which I have plenty of mental illnesses. So I ended up using ended up using talking about it a lot. I haven’t used it quite so much recently, because I have been really kind of tweeting a lot less. But for a while there, it was a lifeline for me.

R Blank 7:08
And so I’m wondering the way you talk about it, did you view it as therapy for yourself or therapeutic for like a therapeutic service for others, or kind of a mix of both.

Sammy Nickalls 7:20
I didn’t want to think of it necessarily as a therapeutic outlet for others, just because I’m not an expert. I’m not like a therapist in any way. So I didn’t want to kind of have that tinge to it where, you know, it seems like I’m trying to fix something about the internet. But it definitely helped me a lot. And I did hear that it helped others. And that was a bonus. I mean, I that makes it sound like I wanted it to be all about me. That’s not the case at all, but I just kind of wanted it to be organic. And I wanted Yeah, people to be able to click on this hashtag and have like an entire little section of the Internet where they could be reminded of with, you know, at least a few people talking about how they have been having hard mental health days too. And and maybe that person who clicked on it could feel a little bit less alone.

Stephanie Warner 8:12
Yeah, that’s a I want to hone in on one thing you said cuz I thought it was kind of interesting. You said he didn’t want to fix the internet. I’m just wondering why Why don’t you want to fix it? tongue in cheek, but I just wonder.

Sammy Nickalls 8:28
First of all, I think that would be kind of a Sisyphus sort of situation where I don’t think to do that.

R Blank 8:36
And secondly, I

Sammy Nickalls 8:37
just, I didn’t want to become like a, I’ve noticed that there are some mental health movements where people kind of try to be the face of, you know, mental health and it just feels a little bit. I don’t know, it feels a little bit like kind of taking advantage of a situation and I just I was really, I didn’t want to do that I wanted it to just be this is what I’m using to talk about my own mental health you can join if you want. I didn’t want to kind of make it seem like I am the person who was going to do this thing for the internet like it just didn’t feel right to me if that makes any sense. It totally

R Blank 9:17
makes sense. Yeah to me. So how do you get from the experiences we just talked about to writing logoff Self Help for the extremely online well actually let’s let’s before well okay, now I’m now I’m confusing myself with information overload. But what what led you to come up with the term the term extremely online and how did you get from from the the experiences you just talked about to writing this book?

Sammy Nickalls 9:46
I think there was a few times where I tweeted that I was extremely online and that not to say at all that I coined that phrase I

R Blank 9:55
first I’ve heard of it.

Sammy Nickalls 9:58
I’ve seen a lot of people use it on Twitter when, you know, they’ve realised that they’ve spent a little bit too much time online, but I have to give my editor Jill full credit for the title. She came up with that title. And I just thought it was brilliant. So she and I really worked together on it, but on the book, but she came up with the idea she came up with the title. So yeah, it’s, it’s really a good way to explain what it feels like to just be scrolling all the time and realising Oh, wow, I have spent like maybe a couple hours not looking at a screen today. And the rest of the time I’ve been online, like what is it that can’t be good for my brain?

R Blank 10:40
So and So, props to Jill thank you for. So yeah, how did you get from the experiences of you know, the social media fast, and then, you know, writing about this for the publication you were working at, to writing this book.

Sammy Nickalls 10:58
It’s kind of crazy. I’ve been really a proponent lately. And it sounds like a platitude of feeling. You know, like everything happens for a reason. And that was really the experience with this book, I, the six month kind of cleanse of social media was something that I did on my own, just completely not related to any sort of project. And then some time passed, where I was kind of considering you know, that during that time, I felt a lot better mentally than I did when I got back online. And then it just so happened that Jill reached out and she said, I saw your writing in Teen Vogue, I had this idea for a journal, a self guided journal that could help teens and young adults, and really anybody have to figure out how to be online in a way that doesn’t make them want to launch themselves into a volcano. And and I thought, Okay, I’m totally down to DO do this, but I am extremely online. And I’m still trying to figure that out to maybe maybe I’m not, you know, maybe I’m not the best authority on the subject. But I’m down to tackle it. So I ended up doing a lot of research, I read this incredible book on digital minimalism by Cal Newport, that really kind of gave me an idea of how I can kind of utilise the concept of digital minimalism in order to kind of create like almost a Marie Kondo version of being on the internet, where it’s, you know, it’s simplistic, it’s minimalistic. So I ended up after doing that research, kind of trying out like a plan for myself of how to get myself up offline completely, and then slowly reintroduce platforms and kind of think, what is this platform adding to my life. So it kind of as I was writing the book, it was also, at the same time, I was figuring out my own relationship with the Internet. So it really I feel grateful that Jill reached out to me because they changed my life, you know, in ways beyond just writing the book.

Stephanie Warner 13:09
Wow, that’s that sounds very serendipitous, actually. And it makes me wonder, you know, what exactly is digital minimalism? Can you explain to our listeners, like what that really is? What does that mean?

Sammy Nickalls 13:22
Yeah, it’s essentially, it is being online in a way that fosters your interests and adds value to your life. And cutting out the Doom scrolling, cutting out, you know, the, the times where you find yourself on the internet, and suddenly, half an hour has passed, and you have no idea how that even happened or where that time went. It’s really being mindful about the time that you are in the internet and being intentional about it. Really considering how you feel when you’re on the internet and making changes over and over again. Because digital minimalism isn’t like a once and done thing, where you just kind of create a plan and then just never change it. It’s reevaluating, over and over. How am I using the internet? Is it adding value to my life? How can I cut down on my time in on the internet so that I can bring that time back to interests that I actually want to you know, foster in my life, and that helped me kind of create things outside of screens. And a lot of times that’s just kind of reevaluating how you use the internet. That last bit was a little bit repetitive, but I think he gave me

Stephanie Warner 14:43
Well, yeah, yeah. And I wonder, you know, it seems you know what everything that you’re saying really resonates with me and it seems like it would be an easy thing to do, but I know from my own self I’ve tried. You know, when I first started paying attention to my consumption of social media, I But it was it was difficult to kind of get out of some of the habits. And I wonder, you know, how would you? How would you help somebody get started, like what would be a key first step to trying to, you know, be more intentional with with social media use or digital use will say digital consumption.

Sammy Nickalls 15:19
Yeah, there’s actually one key thing that I mentioned in the book that is the first step and the most important step in digital minimalism, which is paying attention to how you feel when you’re on social media. And if you’re feeling negatively or bad in any way, logging off. And that’s really the first step. Because a lot of times we scroll through social media, and get ourselves more and more worked up. And a lot of these platforms, that’s what they depend on is you getting reactive, getting angry, they show you things that you know, either you really, really love, and it’ll keep you scrolling, or you know, they’ll capitalise on your insecurities and try to sell you things that will make you feel better about yourself, and just anything to keep you online. And if you are able to pay attention to how you feel and act accordingly, when you’re on the internet, then you’ll be able to kind of notice when these platforms are trying to kind of trap you and take back your time. Which is I think it feels almost revolutionary. When you start doing it. That sounds like a strong word. But that’s exactly how it felt for me.

R Blank 16:30
So, in other interviews, I saw you refer to tech addiction. And this, this is following what you just said, but tech addiction being driven by fear. And I thought that was personally I thought that was a really interesting perspective, because I do think about these topics, probably not as much as you but but I always think of it as you know, like a dopamine mechanism. And which isn’t necessarily fear. It’s actually it’s a it’s a rewards based sort of trigger that they i that the tech companies and the platforms are trying to invoke. So what do you mean by tech addiction being driven by fear?

Sammy Nickalls 17:11
Well, I think arguably, any addiction is driven by fear. And again, I’m not an expert, I’m not a therapist, but I have thought a lot about addiction, I have thought a lot about 12 Step programmes and kind of done a lot, I made a lot of changes in my life that had to do with addiction. And I think that any addiction is driven by fear, because it’s essentially trying to fill a void of some kind of void, whether that is substances, which I don’t want to compare substances with tech necessarily, because I know that they’re two different ballgames. But tech addiction is similar in that you want to fill a void, whether that’s trying to kind of get like that dopamine hit of seeing like exactly what you want to see whether that’s whether that’s like a funny video, or whether that’s an update from a friend, or whether that’s something that will make you angry, and you don’t even realise that you’re doing it like you’re just trying to, that’s essentially what Doom scrolling is, is scrolling until you find the thing that will make you feel better. And the trick is that you’re never going to find the thing that will make you feel better. In fact, you will just feel worse and worse and more and more fearful. And really a lot of emotions, the underlying element is fear, anger, the underlying element is fear. So I think that that’s really important to notice when you are feeling fearful. And a lot of times, that’s just an undercurrent of your day, is fear. And so when you start to notice when you’re feeling that you can then make changes

R Blank 18:48
accordingly. I really Yeah. I really appreciate that perspective. And you sharing that. So what are your thoughts then on digital detox?

Sammy Nickalls 18:59
Yes. So I actually have a chapter in logoff, specifically about this. So I think that digital minimalism and digital detoxing are very different things and people think about digital minimalism and logging off as digital detoxing, which is essentially what I did at first, just completely getting rid of your social media, and then logging back on inevitably as if nothing happened. Maybe at first, you’ll think, Okay, I’m going to do this more mindfully. But you don’t have a plan because digital detoxing is just about logging off completely and then coming back on like, you need a plan to stick to it’s you or else you know, you’re gonna fall back into patterns. It’s not your fault. It’s just human nature. And it’s the way that these platforms are designed. They’re addictive by design. So digital detoxing, it also can be capitalised by companies and organisations that you know will offer like these luxurious retreats on digital detoxing, and you pay a whole bunch of money and you log off and You feel like oh, this changed my life. And then you log back on and you find yourself doing scrolling again. Whereas digital minimalism is being very intentional and creating your own personalised plan. And over and over reevaluating, oh, hey, is my relationship with this platform getting unhealthy? Maybe I should tweak it. They are very different things, even though they sound similar at face value.

R Blank 20:23
Yeah, so the way I’m hearing it is, you know, it can be tempting to view digital detox as, you know, fasting after bingeing. And that, if you just do that on its own, and don’t change anything else, it’s not gonna really help. But if you if you, you know, invoke a plan that, okay, I’m going to eat less of this, I’m going to exercise more. And I’m not just going to go cold turkey, you know, and go fast for three days. Right, that it’s a healthier approach to kind of creating a future ongoing relationship that’s more beneficial is that that’s what, Capture One.

Sammy Nickalls 21:02
Yes, that’s it. That’s it exactly. It’s kind of like a pendulum. If you’re going to swing one to one extreme, then inevitably, you’re going to swing back to the other extreme, that’s just human nature. So you’ve got to find balance, everything is about balance, I’ve realised I’ve, for a long time, I tried to kind of change my life, through these self improvement mechanisms that were just too extreme for me to be able to keep up. And that’s also what the internet tries tries to give you is like these diets, or you know, like, try this, this product that will, I don’t know, give you better skin or whatever, and you do this, these really extreme things. And then within a few weeks, usually you fall off of them. It’s all about balance, it’s all about being really forgiving towards yourself. Because a lot of times when you are doing that pendulum swinging, it also comes with a lot of fear, it comes with a lot of shame, where you when you inevitably start, quote, unquote, bingeing after a fast, you know, it’s really about recognising when you aren’t getting that balance when you are starting to swing one way or the other, and gently bring yourself back to the centre.

R Blank 22:13
So what are, you know, I think it’s obvious, just from even just us talking now, or or US inviting you on the podcast that, you know, I agree. We both agree with basically everything that you’re saying, and that we advocate a similar sort of approach to to these same issues. But in your opinion, you know, are there trade offs or downsides of this approach to your relationship with technology, I mean, you’d said, you know, the part of what drove your tech addiction was feeling that you needed to be online 24/7 not to miss any opportunities. So just as an example, this digital minimalism mean you are missing opportunities.

Sammy Nickalls 22:51
I think that it’s possible, you could you could miss some opportunities, you could find out, Oh, man, this editor tweeted that she needed a writer for this perfect article that I could have written you, there are things that you will miss out on. But that’s just kind of life. I mean, it’s there are always going to be trade offs. But I find that the things that you quote unquote miss out on are so small in comparison to the what you get from digital minimalism, which is your time back your agency back, you feel more like you’re in your body. And I think that that’s worth so much more than, you know, maybe missing out on like a friend’s event that she posted on Facebook, but forgot to text you about which has happened and I was like, Oh, man.

Stephanie Warner 23:41
Yeah, it absolutely does. And I’ve experienced that in my own life where, you know, I don’t Facebook very much I don’t do much social media anymore. And I, you know, I get back on and I would have missed something. But I realised that it’s okay, I can, you know, I can I can what I was getting, like you were saying what I what I got in return was time to do things that I wanted to do and focus on things that I wanted to focus on. And and, most importantly, not feel bad all the time, because I realised that social media was really making me feel bad. And, you know, so I just kind of want to bridge a little bit into another thing that you you were talking about balance. And they know we’re talking about kind of limiting or rolling back our use of digital consumption. But there are places where it is really helpful. And I wonder if there’s a favourite app that that you have that’s helped you kind of keep a healthy balance with your technology. Yes,

Sammy Nickalls 24:37
I rely very strongly are very sorry, I’m gonna try that. Again. I rely very much on freedom. It’s an app that is very simple. You download it to your phone, your computer, whatever device you use, and you can block whatever sites you want. You could block everything if you want if you want if you’re trying to like write some thing or do something and you don’t want to be on the internet at all. You can completely block yourself from the internet. Or you can just choose a few platforms I have like Twitter blocked a lot of times, and I do you know, like, unblock myself and then scroll for a while. And then I’m like God, dang it and then. But essentially, when you block yourself from one of these sites and you try to go on it, it’ll just show like a green screen with a butterfly that’s like, take a deep breath, or, you know, go do something for yourself or like, it’ll have like a little reminder. And that has been really valuable for me even just to see how many times I absentmindedly go to check Twitter, and I’m like, Why did I do that? Freedom reminds me like, you know, you could be doing something else right now instead of like checking Twitter and, you know, wasting kind of 15 minutes of time, just like scrolling. So freedom has been indispensable for me.

Stephanie Warner 25:55
I love this. Well, first of all, I didn’t know that about this app, and I’m going to put it on my phone for sure. And but when you first said freedom, I was like, that’s a great concept. What’s the benefit to getting off social media, I did not realise it was actually an app. And thank you for bringing that to my attention and to the attention of our listeners, because that I think, is one of those tools that can really help you do what you you know, really help you wean off your your addiction to or your habit will say, to looking at the phone all the time. So I really appreciate that that’s a jam. And we will definitely be linking to that in the show notes.

Sammy Nickalls 26:37
Oh, my pleasure. It’s it’s yeah, it’s really helped me. So I kind of tried to tell everybody about it, obnoxiously sometimes I’m like, Hey, download this app, it really does give you freedom.

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R Blank 26:49
So could you tell us more about what’s in log? I mean, I know we’ve talked about a lot of the ideas behind it. But what’s actually in logoff, like when our listeners go out and buy it, what can they expect to get into?

Sammy Nickalls 27:06
Initially, I talked about a lot of the topics that we talked about here, just some little blurbs of thoughts on my thoughts on digital minimalism, introducing the reader to digital minimalism, explaining why it’s important the differences between digital minimalism and detoxing, but a lot of it is for the reader to kind of write their thoughts and there’s a lot of prompts to get the reader thinking about how they use social media. There are some prompts that encourage the reader to go on social media as normal and notice what they do and why they do it. And what what certain posts make them feel and what posts make them feel bad. Just kind of like analysing with a kind of a loving sort of vibe, making sure not to judge yourself for what you do, and just writing it down. And then that kind of helps you get a better idea of what you want to get out of the internet and what kind of value it is at like different platforms are adding to your life. And then there’s a plan that’s a few weeks long, where you kind of cut out all social media, and then slowly reintroduce platforms back into your day, whichever platforms you know you prefer. And doing it one by one helps you see like isolate what you get out of each platform. So it’s essentially a plan you don’t have to use the plan you can use the the journal however you want. I tried to make it as versatile as possible. But it’s yeah, that’s essentially what you get out of it is analysing your own habits and trying to create your own plan for digital minimalism.

R Blank 28:45
That’s That’s great. And so so the listeners can get a taste of the type of journey that they’ll go on after they buy it what what would be a, you know, a single tip that someone listening to this right now could you know tonight when they’re done with work, to try to try to implement to get started with digital minimalism and see what maybe that that that worldview has to offer them.

Sammy Nickalls 29:08
I hate to sound like a broken record. But really the big one is notice how you feel you don’t even have to do the second part which is logging off when you feel bad. Just noticing how you feel when you’re on the internet is a huge step. And that really gets you in that intentional mindset, which is the key of digital minimalism. Just noticing how you feel with a forgiving you know, sort of perspective on reminding yourself that it’s okay to feel how you feel that these platforms try to make you feel certain emotions. Just noticing how you feel is the biggest step you can take.

Stephanie Warner 29:46
Yeah, I think that if it gets a common concept that applies here as well as the first step is awareness. It’s it’s really is just just paying attention. I think starting with how you feel when you’re doing something like online. line is probably the most powerful way or prompt to to understand how your how your behaviour is actually making you feel.

R Blank 30:10
Yeah, but I think you know what’s interesting there is, you know, following some of what Sammy was saying earlier in the interview, these platforms are kind of numbing you to your own self awareness. So actually taking that step to be aware and to be mindful, is it’s one of those things that sounds a lot easier than I think it is, in practice for a lot of people.

Sammy Nickalls 30:30
Yeah, it reminds me a bit of I remember, there was like, cartoons, probably several of showing, you know, people walking around looking like zombies, like looking like actual zombies holding their phones. And I remember kind of rolling my eyes at that, because I was like, oh, whatever, the internet has completely changed my life and wonderful ways. Like people can, you know, criticise tech, all they want, but whatever. But after doing this digital minimalism, I’ve realised that that is what these platforms want is for you to essentially be a zombie like not to notice your own feelings to just kind of pay, like, do whatever the feed is telling you to do, or telling you how to feel just completely disconnecting you from your body, they want you to be a zombie. And that sounds kind of conspiratorial, like, it sounds like I’m wearing

R Blank 31:22
it’s a business model. It’s a business, but it is

Sammy Nickalls 31:25
it is and the way to get your agency back is just noticing how you feel like that’s the big thing to like,

Stephanie Warner 31:31
just, you know, periodically just asking yourself how I feel, how do I feel? How do I feel?

R Blank 31:36
Making sure that you remember to do that? And then answer your Well, that’s

Stephanie Warner 31:39
always that’s always, that’s hard. It can be hard. But I think that’s where things like, you know, the book and having doing interviews like this, really, you know, once somebody starts realising if you just hear the concept, sometimes that’s the thing that makes the change. It can be as simple as just somebody saying, hey, why don’t you pay attention to how you feel?

R Blank 32:00
So you’re on that then Sammy, where can people find log off? Log off?

Sammy Nickalls 32:06
If you just Google log off, it’ll come up on penguin site where there’s a whole bunch of different vendors you can buy it from, but you can also just buy it on Amazon. You can buy it from Barnes and Noble. It’s available in most bookstores. So yeah, even though it’s about logging off, you can log on and

R Blank 32:26
oh, yeah, people have to use a device to listen to this interview. Alan’s.

Sammy Nickalls 32:31
Exactly balancing.

R Blank 32:34
And how else would you like to our audience members to connect with you?

Sammy Nickalls 32:38
Oh, Twitter is the main one that I use. I also have a contact form on my website, SammyNickalls.com. And you can reach out to me there. I’m happy to read whatever you want to tell me. Anyway, even if you just want to chat, that’s

R Blank 32:55
fine, too. That’s great. Well, Sammy will include those links in the show notes. Sammy, thank you so much for agreeing to come on to the healthier tech podcast. Again. The book is log off Self Help for the extremely online and sent me this has been a pleasure.

Sammy Nickalls 33:12
It’s been a pleasure for me to thank you so much for having me.

Announcer 33:16
Thank you so much for listening to this episode of the healthier tech podcast. Remember to check the show notes for all the links and resources mentioned in the show. Please like and subscribe to the healthier tech podcast on Apple, Spotify or your podcast platform of choice. Get your free quickstart guide to building a healthier relationship with technology and our latest information at healthier tech.co

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

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R Blank

R Blank

R Blank is the founder of Healthier Tech and the host of “The Healthier Tech Podcast”, available iTunes, Spotify and all major podcasting platforms.

R has a long background in technology. Previously, R ran a software engineering firm in Los Angeles, producing enterprise-level solutions for blue chip clients including Medtronic, Apple, NBC, Toyota, Disney, Microsoft, the NFL, Ford, IKEA and Mattel.

In the past, he served on the faculty at the University of Southern California Viterbi School of Engineering where he taught software engineering, as well as the University of California, Santa Cruz.

He has spoken at technology conferences around the world, including in the US, Canada, New Zealand and the Netherlands, and he is the co-author of “AdvancED Flex Development” from Apress.

He has an MBA from the UCLA Anderson School of Management and received his bachelor’s degree, with honors, from Columbia University. He has also studied at Cambridge University in the UK; the University of Salamanca in Spain; and the Institute of Foreign Languages in Nizhny Novgorod, Russia.

Connect with R on LinkedIn.

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