S3 Ep 070 Lyn McLean Wants You To Make These EMF Changes In Your Home Now

In this episode, Lyn talks about how external electromagnetics can affect the internal electromagnetics of our bodies.
S3 Ep 070 Lyn McLean


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Show Notes

Joining us on today’s episode is a true trailblazer in the EMR field, Lyn McLean. With over 27 years of dedicated experience as an author, educator, and Director of EMR Australia PL, she has been at the forefront of educating individuals about the profound impacts of electromagnetic fields. She has authored four insightful books, collaborated on groundbreaking studies, and been a driving force behind the EMR Association of Australia. Her expertise has influenced government policies and industry standards, making her an invaluable voice in this crucial conversation.

S3 Ep 070 Lyn McLean

In this episode, you will hear: 

  • How the discussion and concerns of EMR/EMF have evolved over the last couple of decades. 
  • Moving past the addiction to technology and opening up to educating yourself regarding EMR. 
  • Levels of exposure and placing yourself from a position of information. 
  • Problems caused by exposure to EMR, such as electromagnetic hypersensitivity (EHS). 
  • Increasing your overall health and decreasing your overall toxic load – including EMR. 
  • The electromagnetics of our bodies and how external electromagnetics can impact them. 
  • The ways in which the market is affected by consumers, and how we can start making changes to make demands of the products being made. 

Lyn McLean is an author, educator, and Director of EMR Australia PL.

For over 27 years, she has been educating people about the effects of electromagnetic fields and helping them protect themselves and their families.

Lyn has written four books on this issue, co-authored a study on magnetic fields in Australian homes, and reported on Australian and international developments since 1996.

She established and ran the EMR Association of Australia for nine years and has been a member of government and industry committees.

Lyn sends our regular news updates and can be contacted at emraustralia.com.au.

Connect with Lyn McLean:

Website: https://emraustralia.com.au/ 

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/EMRAustralia 

Connect with R Blank and Stephanie Warner: For more Healthier Tech Podcast episodes and to download our Healthier Tech Quick Start Guide, visit https://www.healthiertech.co and follow https://instagram.com/healthiertech

Additional Links:


Lyn McLean 0:00
So we’ve gone down this path because people have invented technologies that are possible to invent and make a lot of money, not because they’re healthy or ethical, and that the lack of ethics in the development of technologies, I think, an issue, but ethical people with with great technological skills can easily take us to a point in society where we can, we can live safely with this technology, and we can expand it in positive directions. But already, we can do so much with the technologies that are available and that are safe. And the thing for me, it’s about educating people, because I know not everyone is going to listen to what I’m saying, that doesn’t matter. It’s the people who want to be safe. Hopefully, they will hear this message. And if we can make a few people safer, then, you know, we’ve done our bit. Ultimately, everybody will get the message.

Announcer 0:56
Welcome to the healthier tech podcast, the show about building a healthier relationship with modern technology. Now, here are your hosts R blank and Stephanie Warner.

R Blank 1:09
So today’s conversation is with this lovely woman from Australia who has been involved with these efforts around EMF education, and protection for three decades. And it’s a really, to me, it was really a great opportunity to hear from someone with that long perspective on these issues. I mean, you know, my my father was was, was in this for a long time, too, but he didn’t come to it with a consumer education perspective. And what Lynn has to say I think it was really enlightening.

Stephanie Warner 1:44
Yeah, it was a really nice interview with lots of really good information. And I do I love the perspective she brought I love the activism. I love her story about how she got into this work was very different unique than any other journeys we’ve heard talk to EMF. And yeah, it’s lovely, and I just can’t wait for everyone to meet her through this interview. So

R Blank 2:06
let’s get into it. Yeah, let’s do it. Joining us on today’s episode is a true trailblazer in the EMR field Lynn Maclean. With over 27 years of dedicated experience as an author, educator, and director of EMR Australia, she has been at the forefront of educating individuals about the profound impacts of electromagnetic fields. She has authored four insightful books collaborated on groundbreaking studies and been a driving force behind the EMR association of Australia. Her expertise has influenced government policies and industry standards, making her an invaluable voice in this crucial conversation. Welcome, Lynne to the healthier tech podcast.

Lyn McLean 2:50
It’s my pleasure to be here and thank you for having me.

R Blank 2:54
Thank you. I know the timezone thing made coordinating this a little difficult. So I appreciate you troop and through that. We look forward to this very much so so just to kick us off EMR and for those listeners who don’t know that’s a that’s another common acronym for EMF it stands for electromagnetic radiation. So EMR is is the radiation Australia is where you are. But what is EMR Australia?

Lyn McLean 3:23
Well, AMR is January’s a business that I set up about 20 years ago now. And the reason I set it up was that I’d been doing this work for a long time, as you said, 27 years. And I’ve been helping people through my work in an environmental organisation, and then through the EMR association of Australia. So I’ve done that for a long time. And I’ve come to the point where I couldn’t keep going. So if I either had to go and get a proper job, or I had to try and make this something that would support me to continue to do it. So I set up EMR Australia as a business, but with the object of being able to bring in enough income to keep me going so that I could continue to help people. So essentially, I do probably the same things that I’ve done for the last 27 years, which is to try and help people and publish information about what’s happening on this issue. So that people can really be informed. And at the same time, I have products that can help people reduce their exposure and live a bit more safely.

R Blank 4:24
That’s so that sounds sounds very similar to shield your body. So but But who is the audience that you target with this, this information and these products and how do you define your audience?

Lyn McLean 4:41
Anybody who wants to know? So we have a very diverse audience. I think we have some scientists and I’ve been quite pleased when some scientists have come to me and said, you know, how about we we do an article on such and such or if I’m a pro Extending said, I’d like to do an article on your latest paper. And they’ve been very helpful and forthcoming. So some scientists, some businesses, mostly the general public, so people who want to know what is going on in, in the world, and I think this is one of the key issues in the world at the moment, certainly, in terms of the environment, and in terms of our health, but also people who just want to be safe and healthy and bring up their their family in a safe and healthy environment. And,

R Blank 5:31
and so EMR, Australia, you said, Is this about two decades? Going now? Yes, please do so in that time. How have you seen the audience shift? And the discussion around this topic? How has that changed in in the last two decades?

Lyn McLean 5:54
It’s, it’s very interesting. If I go back even further than that, when I first got started, the conversation was really about powerlines and metre boxes. And people were a bit shocked that a powerline could could have fields that damaged health or that Demeter box on your bedroom wall might be an issue. And that was a big message for us to try and get across to people. And then we found that people had, and by people, I mean, the community had really come to grips with that and understood that that was an issue. And by then we’d moved into mobile phones. And people didn’t know that mobile phones were a problem. And then they started to accept it. Maybe mobile phones are a problem, then we had the mobile phone tower issue. And then they started to accept that maybe mobile phone towers are a problem. And then we had Wi Fi. So

R Blank 6:41
I don’t mean to laugh. I mean, I do but it’s yeah, you got it. Yes.

Lyn McLean 6:46
So the app, people’s understanding has changed. But some of the issues that they’ve got to come to grips with, and it’s a lot more confusing now than ever it was before. And I see now that we’re it was it was quite easy to talk about a metre box, you know, it’s on the other side of the bed, movie bed. Measures are simple. But now we’re talking about, you know, mobile phones, mobile phone towers, Wi Fi, the Bluetooth you, you know what your kids are getting exposed to at school, what you’re exposed to at work. It’s there’s such a plethora of sources now. And people don’t know which ones they should be worried about, and which ones they shouldn’t. And I get people asking me things like, Oh, my goodness, I’m really concerned about dirt fields from the fridge, or, you know, the filter in the fridge. Right and the bottom of the list when it comes to the exposures in a house, generally speaking, I mean, if you happen to be sleeping on the other side of the wall from back of the fridge, it might be an issue, but not many people are. But it’s the complexity of the issue. I think that’s a problem. And the other thing that’s a problem is that we’ve now got a situation where people dare I say, don’t want to know the truth. Because when I’m talking to someone, and I’m explaining things, they’re going Yes, yes, yes, yes. And then there’s a point where you can hear or you can see, there’s a cut off, there’s the glazed eyes, and there’s that I don’t want to know anymore. The reason resistance, and the reason is that we’ve triggered that level of discomfort because they’re addicted to this technology, telling them that what they’re addicted to is not safe. And they don’t want to hear that.

R Blank 8:33
So you’re you’re encountering more you feel you’re encountering more opposition now than then previously. Yeah, very

Lyn McLean 8:39
much from from individuals, you know, the, I think the gym the situation is that most people are addicted to this stuff, and don’t want to deal with it. And the other day, I was talking to a woman, and I talked to her before and given her some information. And she said to me, oh, yeah, I should have listened to you the first time. But she hadn’t any could tell that. What I’d said to her. She wasn’t comfortable because it was about the technology that she had in her home that she had chosen to use that was the main source of her exposure.

R Blank 9:15
And are you adjust and because this is something that I my exposure, no pun intended to this field doesn’t exactly match yours. But the role of addiction is clearly obvious. And I’m wondering how you work to approach that that right? Because when you’re talking to an addict, it’s a strong word. But when you’re talking to an addict of anything, you will obviously have to shift how you’re talking about a subject. And how do you find going about that bad hurdle? But

Lyn McLean 9:56
perhaps not very well. I think that people either want them See, George, I don’t, and I can’t change their emotional reaction to an issue, I can only give them information that they can choose to accept or not. And I often say to that to people is that there’s a spectrum. Here, there’s no exposure, there’s complete exposure, and there’s somewhere in the middle, and you can choose where you want to be. And I don’t mind where you place yourself on that spectrum, as long as you do it from a position of inflammation. Yes, yeah. What I’m concerned about is people who are exposed to everything, and they haven’t got a clue, therefore, they don’t have a choice. So by giving people information, they can choose and, and if they choose to be exposed to a lot, and they’ve got that information, they might gradually reduce it over time, we can hope so. But a lot of the people who talk to me are people who are sick, or have some symptoms, or the children have got some symptoms. And so they’re a bit more motivated to do something about it. And

R Blank 11:02
so when you say the people who find you, and that makes a lot that makes a lot of sense that matches my experience where, you know, people are going to find you, because they’re looking for solutions to a problem they have, when you say they have symptoms, what what types of conditions are you seeing in people who reach out to you,

Lyn McLean 11:21
I’m seeing a lot more electromagnetic hypersensitivity. So for people who might not have heard that term before, it’s sometimes called EHS for short. And it’s, it’s symptoms or reactions that people get to exposure. So if they’re using a mobile phone, they might have headaches, or memory and concentration problems, or there’s a whole host of spectrum, a whole spectrum of symptoms that are associated with this condition. And a lot of people are coming to me and saying, you know, I’ve, I’ve got this, what can I do to reduce my exposure? And I guess that’s one of the common ones. But we do get people who are worried about the phone tower out there, or the smart metre on the bedroom wall, or some other piece of technology. And the problem with that is that often it’s not the phone tower. That’s the biggest problem. Even if the phone towers there. It’s what’s inside their house. That’s

R Blank 12:20
the biggest problem. Yeah, we’re on their body. In fact, that’s

Lyn McLean 12:23
right. And if I say that to them, you can then feel that, but but but, but I can see the phone tower. It’s big.

R Blank 12:32
I get it. Yeah. Yeah. Because you can’t see EMF, but you Yeah, and, and the cell phone is really small. But that tower right out, you know, block away is huge. Yeah.

Lyn McLean 12:42
And it’s, you know, it’s cute. Look at my look at my phone, it does all this stuff. And it takes photos, and it’s really useful. How can that be dangerous? Yeah. And I suppose

R Blank 12:51
they let they let them sell it to me. So how could it possibly be dangerous if I could just walk into any store and bit by one? Exactly

Lyn McLean 12:58
that. So there’s the assumption somebody out there is protecting us? Well, no, maybe not.

R Blank 13:07
So a quick follow up on this, because you were talking about EHS and I was listening to an interview you did with Dr. Mary Redmayne, I believe, a couple of years ago, about about EHS and in it, you cover a literature support supported model for understanding the condition. Now, I know you were interviewing her, but I figured maybe I would, I would ask you, could you explain a bit about what that means? That is a literature supported model for understanding the condition. And why is that significant? In in this the context of this condition? You’re

Lyn McLean 13:44
probably better to talk to Mary about that than fair enough. Yeah. And I think that what Mary did was really valuable, because what she’s doing is she’s saying that there is, you know, his his data, his evidence that supports his condition, because here in Australia, and I’m not sure, so much where you are, we have our authorities saying, there’s no, there’s no problem, you know, AHS is real sure it’s real, but it’s not necessarily caused by electromagnetic radiation. Well, that’s a bit like saying, well, chemical sensitivities are real, but it’s not caused by chemicals. So what Mary’s doing, I think he’s bringing some of the the evidence together and saying, Look here, here it is giving us another way of looking at it that some people might find a bit more easy to understand.

R Blank 14:40
No, and that’s exactly what I was getting into. I was hoping you would answer that way. So because when these people are reaching out to you, at some level, they’re going in most cases, I imagine they’re going to have to work with a health care practitioner in their treatment regimen. And that means their health care practitioner Enter has to accept the validity of the condition to at least some degree. And I’m wondering how it is you advise people to walk that path? Yeah, this

Lyn McLean 15:13
is a very tricky one. Because if someone has ahs, I think the first thing that they need to do is reduce their exposure. So I guess that’s where I can help. Because there’s no use going to a doctor, and then continuing to use your mobile phone that’s causing your headaches, you know, the doctor is not going to give you a pill that’s going to make your mobile phone safe. So the first thing if you if you want you to think about healing, which is the doctor side of things, the first thing is to stop exposing yourself to what’s causing the symptoms. The second thing is to stop exposing yourself to the to the other stuff that’s stressing your body. So generally speaking, that’s chemicals. So the nasty toxic stuff that we put on our bodies, or that we have in our homes, that is also in many cases contributing to symptoms of electromagnetic hypersensitivity, chemical sensitivity and electromagnetic hypersensitivity are very closely related. So by reducing that stress on your body, you’re giving your body a chance to heal. Now, I believe that you can heal from electromagnetic hypersensitivity. And I believe that there are different strategies, it’s not going to do this and you’ll be better. Because everybody’s going to do it slightly differently. And, and that’s all valid. So you can go and see a doctor. And the useful thing about doctors is that they can, some doctors can give you a certificate saying that this person’s got electromagnetic hypersensitivity, which can be useful for your, for your workplace or for whoever needs to be convinced. But if you want to be if you want to overcome it, personally, I will go and see another health practitioner, someone like a naturopath or somebody who there are all sorts of good therapies out there. And there are some bioresonance therapies that, that focus on the energy of the body. So I think if people can work within the sort of sphere that they’re comfortable with, but go and find something that’s going to make the body stronger. And look at your diet, look at your exercise, look at your sleep, look at all of those things, because getting over electromagnetic sensitivity isn’t taking the blue pill. It’s being healthy, addressing all of those aspects of health. And the more that you can do to be healthy, the less impacted you are by that external stuff. Yeah,

R Blank 17:50
so the way that you you talk about it is what I’m hearing is that EHS it is a sensitivity to EMF, but it’s also an issue an issue related to overall toxic load.

Lyn McLean 18:03
Absolutely, yeah. And I talked AR years ago, I did read interviews with Dr. William ray from America, and various other practitioners around the world who are treating people with electromagnetic hypersensitivity. And this is the sort of thing that they were telling me too, that when they examined these these people who have EHS, it’s usually that there’s something else going wrong in their body at the same time, usually heavy metal or chemicals. And when they detox this, this stuff out of their bodies, a lot of these people improve. Now, one of the things I don’t want to talk too much about products is we have zeolite product on our website. And I’m not a health practitioner. But the reason why I keep it there is because a lot of the people in our network have got EHS and a lot of them have got toxic bodies, and this is just a really super easy way of getting some of that toxicity out of the body without having to just chill like a, you know, a particular, we’re not just getting rid of aluminium or we’re not just getting rid of cadmium, it pulls out a whole range of chemicals, and heavy metals, some viruses, some bacteria and so forth. So, you know, there are great things like that that are available that can quite cheaply and easily help people start to clean their, their bodies up. And

R Blank 19:25
just just yeah, just you can talk about whatever products of yours that you you cut you

Stephanie Warner 19:33
off. Yeah, no, no worries, no worries. So I So bringing this back to everybody, so there we have people who are suffering from EHS and and what I’d like to know is for people who are not necessarily having symptoms at this point, or maybe they don’t even know that they’re having symptoms of sensitivity. Why should they be concerned about wireless radiation, and what can they do to start seeing if some of these other things that maybe they or having bad sleep or whatever? What can they do to kind of test? You know what, whether there’s a sensitivity? Do you have any advice for that?

Lyn McLean 20:09
Yeah, good questions. Why should people be concerned? Because there is so. So, so much evidence of risk. So it would be a little bit like me saying to a young mum, don’t feed your child, asbestos or something like that. And here is all the evidence why asbestos is bad, or why, you know, nicotine is bad, or some of the other chemicals in smoking about it’s here. It’s in the scientific literature is in the medical literature. Are you going to do it? Are you going to feed your child asbestos? And most moms would say, heck, no, I’m not going to do that. Because that will be good. There’s so much evidence of risk. Well, you know, I’m saying to you, there’s so much evidence of risk about wireless radiation to, and we’ve got scientific evidence, we’ve got 1000s of scientific studies showing harmful effects on the body. We’ve got medical practitioners saying, this is a, you know, this is having harmful effects on our patients, and medical authorities diagnosing HS, we’ve got major international organisations like the International Agency for Research on Cancer saying, this is a class to be that’s a possible carcinogen. And since they made that classification, there’s more and more and more evidence that it’s carcinogenic, we’ve got courts saying exposure caused brain tumours it caused cancer, it caused ahs. We’ve got people talking about their problems, people coming to me all the time and explaining that they get this or they get that when they’re exposed. We’ve got educators, including, fairly recently, the the New South Wales Department of Education, saying, we’re going to put a ban on mobile phones, in, in schools in place, we don’t want kids using mobile phones in class, because it interferes with with learning and concentration. And on top of that, we’ve got effects on plants and animals and the natural environment. These and out there pollinators, too. So there’s all of this evidence. And if people want to see it, you can go onto our website and look under the blog page and our newsletters. It’s all there free, where we have studies, just explaining what the research is finding. There’s so much there. And I would think that if anybody out there had seen the amount of data that I’ve seen over the last 27 years about the risks of this radiation, they wouldn’t be sticking these air pods in their ears, or

R Blank 22:58
Oh, no, that’s horrible. And I’ll just quickly I’ll jump in the the website you’re talking about is EMR. australia.com.au. And that link is in the show notes for this. This episode, stepping back quickly, because I do want to continue what we were just talking about, but we sort of glossed over, right, because you had talked about how when you got interested in this arena, it was much less developed. There was much less interest, there were many fewer sources. What caused you to decide to focus on making people safer from from growing amounts of EMF. Oh, it’s

Lyn McLean 23:40
a very long story. Have you got time for it? Sure. Yeah. Okay. Well, back in the day, I studied German at school and uni and, and thought, you know, that was probably a fairly useless thing to do. But I was really quite passionate about German. And then when I, in 1996, I was working in an environment centre. And I had just got involved with the group there that was dealing with electromagnetic radiation. And I found out that there was a conference in Munich, that was called something like the the ACM or biological effects of electromagnetic fields. I thought, Oh, wow, that’s in Munich. I had worked in Germany, just a little bit south of Munich. How fantastic would it be to go there and go to that conference? And thought, well, you know, that’s not likely. But through a series of events, I actually got funding to go to that conference. And that changed my life. And you know, those pivotal moments in life where you can just say, ah, that that was the moment. So at that conference, I met some of the researchers I talked to them. I listened to what people said, I took pages and pages and pages of notes that an electrical engineer then very kindly spent time explaining to me what they meant. And I, because I knew nothing, I knew what everybody else knew, which was also nothing. So I then was in a great position to be able to try and translate that into language that ordinary people could understand. And we, we developed a little bit of a network around Australia of people who are interested, mostly who had sensitivities, some of them still 27 years later, still subscribe to my newsletter. And, and so I started writing about it. And originally, I thought I wasn’t going to be interested in this issue, because, you know, it’s it was to do with electricity, that I became so fascinated, and I started reading books, and I started reading a book by Dr. Robert Becker. Do you know? Well, I mean, I

R Blank 25:53
don’t know him personally. But I know that book.

Lyn McLean 25:55
Yes. He, he found out that the reason that I salamanders legs will regrow if they cut off, but a frog’s legs will not regrow, if they’re cut off is to do with minute minute minute levels of electric fields at the site of injury. And he postulated that it was an electric field, basically in the body that caused healing. And this is back in his 60s, this is a long time ago. And it his theories were tested because he was able to then apply my new electric fields, two broken limbs that were hard to heal, and they healed. And he he was an orthopaedic surgeon. So this is now routinely used in orthopaedics. So basically, he knew what he was talking about. And I just found this whole electrical phenomenon of the body fascinating. And I’ve been reading about it ever since. And there’s some really tremendous research, one of the articles about that we’ve just posted on our website this week, looking at some current research about the electrical nature of the body. But what it just shows me is that we are incredible electromagnetic beings, our brains, our hearts. Every cell in our body, not just the cell membrane, but inside the cell, it’s electrical, everything that happens is electromagnetic, it’s the reason that, you know, we can pick up a pen, or I can talk or I can look at you, it’s all had driven by the electromagnetics of our body. So why would we not be impacted by electromagnetics? From outside? It’s it’s only natural. And I think we if we start to look at ourselves, as what we really are, is electromagnetic and I’m not talking fringe science here. I’m talking really solid science by conventional scientists. If we are this, this kind of electronic magnetic being, then I think we need to rethink our relationship with the environment around us.

R Blank 28:04
And that wasn’t a long story also, that’s that’s, in a way for me a really beautiful story. Because most people who get into this field get into it as a response to their their, some degree of pain. And you got into it, through an appreciation of sort of, of, of just beauty and nature. And it’s a really touching way. It’s a really touching story. Yeah, no, I’m sorry, I’m a little. I wasn’t expecting that. So one of the when it comes to advising people, and it comes to your own life, I understand. Because it right before the show, we were chatting, and you said you’ve got options about what technology you use. And that I think is a key message, not just for EMF, but as technology invades more and more of our lives, and is being linked to more and more serious issues, from physical disease to mental health, to developmental disorders. I think it’s a really key message. So I was hoping you could talk a little bit about about it, because it’s one level, it sounds obvious and simple. But at another level, it’s incredibly powerful. So what what do you think, when you say you’ve got options about what technology you use?

Lyn McLean 29:26
Okay, I’ll show you the safest mobile phone in the world. Would you like to see it? Right here is the safest mobile phone in the world. Can you see?

R Blank 29:39
The reason? It’s a wave wall case?

Lyn McLean 29:41
Oh, this is yeah, that’s the case. The reason that it’s the safest mobile phone in the world, though is that it’s turned off all the time. Here it is. It’s in the back of the drawer where it lives. So it You know, I have an option, I have a mobile phone, if I go out, the main reason I take it, if I go out, sometimes I take it when I go out, it’s just in case the person at the other end stuffs up and doesn’t do what they’ve promised to do. And I can contact them. But basically, I probably use it. Maybe twice a year.

R Blank 30:21
Oh, wow,

Lyn McLean 30:22
for a couple of minutes. But that doesn’t mean that I’m not connected to people because I’m talking to you on email all the time. And I’m on the phone all the time. And let me show you this amazing thing.

Stephanie Warner 30:36
I hope it’s a rotary dial. Oh.

Lyn McLean 30:40
What’s known is the landline phone.

R Blank 30:43
I think my grandparents use those. No, I’m kidding. I have one.

Lyn McLean 30:50
So let me tell you that it works. Now the other day, a lady said to me, she’s talking about mobile phone and she said, I think I need to buy a Faraday bag for it. And I said why? And she said I was so it doesn’t irradiate me and I said to her, why don’t you turn it off? Yeah. And she

Stephanie Warner 31:08
said a lot. Oh, we

R Blank 31:10
say that a lot. Yeah. Oh,

Lyn McLean 31:12
shut it off. You know, it’s

R Blank 31:16
such as if the bag actually works. You’re basically turning it off in the bag. Except Yeah. So there’s no point in keeping it on?

Lyn McLean 31:25
Well, precisely. But you know, nowadays, when I asked people, for example, if I was measuring fields in someone’s house might ask them to turn their mobile phone off so that I’m not picking up the fields from the phone, but from the the other stuff around. They say, How do I turn it off? My mobile phone off. So what that tells me is that they’re not turning it off at all. Now, the problem with a lot of mobile phones now is that if you put them on aeroplane mode, aeroplane mode doesn’t work. Yeah, so that was I think they’re not being irradiated. Oh, what do you what do you mean? Yeah, that’s right. But they but aeroplane mode? Yeah. Yeah, okay. Well, I don’t know whether it’s true of all in all countries, but here when I met her mobile phone, it’s an aeroplane mode. It’s still emitting radiation.

R Blank 32:15
Wow. Yes.

Stephanie Warner 32:16
I’ve had situations where it’s, I could still get email. I’m like, What’s going on here? So we actually have someone that we, that we talked to a lot, she always says, aeroplane mode, turn off data turn off, turn off data and internet the same. So you have

R Blank 32:34
Wi Fi and Bluetooth?

Lyn McLean 32:38
Well, turn off the phone.

Stephanie Warner 32:40

Lyn McLean 32:42
that’s right. So it used to be that aeroplane mode did work. But it seems that a lot of the more recent technologies, mobile, turning it off doesn’t work. And that’s true of modems and things too. But basically, we don’t need wireless radiation. And people I talk to just assume we’ve got to have wireless, you know, if we don’t have wireless, we can’t communicate, we can’t use our phone. You know, we can’t take photos, we can’t do anything. But yes, you can’t. You can just use it safe technology to do exactly the same things. So I’ve shown you my landline phone, which I’m on all day. My computers have been built by my computer guy who has built them so they don’t contain any wireless components. So nothing wireless here. I have a modem down there. Nothing wireless from that. So in my home, I have no wireless technology. And nor will I have I I won’t allow it into my home. And if I were to buy something new, even if it’s a light globe, I want to check first and make sure is this is this a smart light globe is it emitting radiation does it have Giga hertz written on the box or mega hertz? Within I won’t buy that I’ll buy one that that hasn’t gotten.

R Blank 34:05
Increasingly though, depending on where you live, it can be hard. Like even if you need just a new refrigerator to get a fridge that doesn’t have wireless built in, it’s you know, it’s still it’s still technically possible. But in some places you might have to special order it. It’s becoming it’s becoming not optional. And with a lot of these cars, the what you said about the phone surprised me and I’m gonna have to look into that in terms of the aeroplane mode. But I did know that when it comes to these appliances like smart TVs, and a lot of cars that when you try to disable the wireless, you are disabling your ability to use it, but it is still emitting those fields while while you think it is off. In fact, I was just interviewing Rob Metzinger from safe living technologies in Canada, and he had a video showing the measurements of the 5g emissions from the road Your collision sensors on a Lincoln SUV. And he then went and there were very high. And then he went into the car system. And he disabled those sensors. And then he went out and measured again. And they were just as high. And so that is happening a lot with him. And so like, in my case, it means I have to unplug my elliptical, every time. I’m done using my elliptical exercise machine, because there’s literally no way to disable the Bluetooth on that machine. And so increasingly, that’s that bad is becoming a really nasty trend in product design.

Lyn McLean 35:39
You’re quite right. And it’s a concern to me, we had a lady who had children with real sensitivities to this radiation, and she had taken tremendous effort to make sure that her home was was safe. And she had shooting curtains from our shielding fabric put up and all sorts of things. And then she turned out, she found out there’s still radiation, and it was coming from Tada, it was coming from her fridge, I think, you know, of course, no one needs to be irradiated by their fridge. And so you’re right. But we still have options, we can still when we’re buying appliances, we can ask, show me one that doesn’t have this will show me one where I can get into the settings and turn it off. And it’s still possible. I recently bought a television and new television, not because there was anything wrong with my old one. But because I wanted to be able to buy one and connect it to the internet with Ethernet cables. While it was still possible to buy them with Ethernet ports. And I think sometimes it means that we might be limited in our choice of models. And for cars. That’s definitely the case I drive an older car. And when I bought it the salesman said I’m sorry, it doesn’t have I think it was Bluetooth, it didn’t. He told me it didn’t have. And he said it doesn’t have Bluetooth. And I say great, I’ll have it.

R Blank 37:08
Yeah, it always reminds me I recently talking to CeCe Doucet, who’s an activist out of Massachusetts. And she had actually contacted me to let me know, there was some information on my site that needed updating, because I advise people to get gas stoves instead of electric stoves. And she said, Well, you just you need to know like, it’s really hard to get a gas stove, that isn’t smart anymore. And so she ended up taking measured measurements off her gas stove. Even after disabling the smart features, they were still really high. So she hired someone to come in, open up the stove, and rip out the wireless card so that she could get the readings back down.

Lyn McLean 37:48
The problem is it’s very hard to even do that now because it used to be that you could get into things and you could take the wireless chips out. But now I understand. And I’m probably not describing these very well. But it’s like they’re welded into the major, the whole board. So you can’t get rid of one bit without the others. But you know, this, doesn’t this come back to us as consumers. If I go back not very far, we used to buy everything was non wireless, we would buy while we would buy modems, they’re all wired in and everybody was happy with those. Why did we suddenly allow ourselves to be conned by advertisers to go out and buy stuff that’s going to irradiate our families? And if we all say no, I’m not going to buy this stuff. I’m I’m looking for the alternatives and create a market demand for the alternatives, then we’ll have manufacturers are rushing to produce your products. Yeah, and we sit. We see that historically, because if I go back in time, when I was young, nobody had that I can remember nobody had allergies. You didn’t buy gluten free products or

R Blank 39:06

Lyn McLean 39:08
That’s right. They’re not very or lactose free, and all of that sort of thing. But over time, there are heaps and heaps of those products. Now this belt Wait, there are all sorts of alternatives. Because people have looked for them. They’ve demanded them because they’ve had those sensitivities. If we as consumers, started a man these things and go to shops and say, show me your wired in keyboards, show me your wired phones, show me your wired modems, then that’s what what manufacturers are going to start producing. And goodness knows we need it. Yeah,

R Blank 39:42
no, I I agree. Because the the only thing that’s going to compel companies to change the course they’re on there’s only two things. One is regulation. And we can spend a few minutes talking about that if you’d like but that is that is not very I don’t have a tremendous amount of optimism for that. And the other one is consumer demand. And that’s one where people like you, and I can have a lot more direct impact, we’re not going to you and I will, at least I can speak for me, I am not going to influence regulators. But I definitely have some influence over people making buying decisions. And that’s, that’s where things can I have a little bit of hope.

Lyn McLean 40:19
That’s right. And I think that we can still do everything in society that that people want to do, but we can do it safely. And if people realise they don’t need wireless, then they can, they can create really safe homes for themselves. And I get people saying, Oh, well, you know, I don’t, I don’t really think I can get rid of the wireless in my home, because this one is out there everywhere. In other words, why would I bother making my home safe when other people are using it, but what they don’t realise is that the majority of their exposure comes from their own stuff. So forget what your neighbours are using, forget the mobile phone terror out there, forget the smart metre, even outside, it’s what is inside your house that you have bought and paid for that you have chosen and are using. That is what is your biggest problem. And you’ve got 100% control over that. That’s really, that’s, that’s good to know.

R Blank 41:18
Yeah. And the second you turn it off, it goes away. It’s not like these other pollutants. Like you’d mentioned, asbestos, you know, getting rid of that as a whole thing. If there’s lead in the water or plastics, you know, those things stick around. And, and EMF, as soon as you turn it off, it’s it’s gone, which is a really nice aspect of it.

Lyn McLean 41:42
That’s right, as long as you turn it off at the right place. And we get a lot of people saying, Oh, well, I turn my modem off, and I say, where do you turn it off? I just switched at the top. Well, that doesn’t turn it off anymore. You’re not here, not in Australia, mostly, you’ve got to turn it off at the PowerPoint. And if you’re turning it off at the PowerPoint, it doesn’t work. And it’s only safe when it’s off the PowerPoint. What is the point of having it? You know, why not have one that you can leave on all the time safely? Because it’s not irradiating you?

R Blank 42:10
Yeah. So as we we wind this down, I know where you are, you probably have to get started on your day and where we are, we have to close up shop. Where do you because you have you have quite some significant perspective on the progression of these things. How do you envision the future of EMF awareness? Consumer demand, we were talking about regulation? And sort of in short, do you describe yourself as an optimist? Or maybe something other than an optimist?

Lyn McLean 42:53
I describe myself as a historian. Yeah, good answer.

If you if you look at history, and I’ve talked to David G, who’s we have him on our website, who’s done a lot of work on a precautionary approach for different issues. If you look at any historical issue, whether it was the, you know, the Roman Empire that had taken over so many countries, or whether it was smoking, and we go back and look at the old movies of the 40s, everybody’s smoking, and it’s so cool, and it’s so sexy, and it’s so everything, or the building of homes with Fibro with asbestos in it, which was just, you know, the wonder material and so good and so fantastic. And ubiquitous in the building industry. All of those things were great, great, great developments or great things at the time for certain interests. But over time, they they fell away, you cannot sustain something that’s unsustainable technology, you cannot sustain something that’s dangerous. Eventually, no matter how hard people try to say it’s not not a dangerous eventually that information comes out. And, and we know that it’s there that information that this that wireless radiation is harmful. As I said, there are 1000s of studies showing that now, plus all of those other agencies and doctors and psychologists that have evidence that this is harmful to our society. The evidence is there. At some point, the pendulum will swing. But and to help the pendulum swing, I think it’s education and more we tell people, the more chance they have of making informed decisions and helping the pendulum to swing. But the sad thing is that usually the pendulum only swings when enough people suffer. So when enough people die of lung cancer from smoking, or enough people, you know, get asbestosis. Then we ask forced to come to the recognition that this is dangerous and to find alternatives, at some point that will happen with wireless radiation. So whether it’s in in two years or 20 years, I don’t know, I, I expect to be around for it, I expect to see that change. We know that social issues generally take, you know, at least 30 years for, for that swing back to happen. But I have absolute and complete confidence that it will happen, we will see a swing away from wireless technologies because a the evidence is so compelling people can’t ignore it be so many people are sick, and can and woken up to the fact that their symptoms are associated with their exposure, or three, so many people have died and the statistics are actually there. But one of those things will trigger this swing back. And then we’ll say, well, actually, we didn’t need it anyway. Let’s, let’s go back to these technologies that actually work, and a safe. So for people like you and me, and hopefully those are listening. We’re already there. Yeah, we’ve already done it.

R Blank 46:09
I mean, with the exception of the disease, sickness and death that you envision, I would actually characterise what you’re talking about as as an optimistic view. I mean, what, unfortunately, the cost of getting there is, is high. But you do envision a world in which technology becomes safer? Oh,

Lyn McLean 46:32
absolutely. We have, you know, human beings that endlessly creative. Give a human a problem. And now they’ll find a solution. So we’ve gone down this path, because people have invented technologies that are possible to invent and make a lot of money, not because they’re healthy or ethical. And that the lack of ethics in the development of technologies, I think, an issue, but ethical people with with great technological skills can easily take us to a point in society where we can we can live safely with his technology, and we can expand it in positive directions. But already, we can do so much with the technologies that are available and that is safe. And the thing for me, it’s about educating people, because I know not everyone is going to listen to what I’m saying. That doesn’t matter. It’s the people who want to be safe. Hopefully, they will hear this message. And if we can make a few people safer, then, you know, we’ve done our bit. Ultimately, everybody will get the message but it always takes time.

R Blank 47:39
Well in this has been a really pleasant day discussion. I’m really glad that Dr. Deborah Davis suggested I reach out to you. I’m really glad that we could find time. I’m glad that I remembered. The timezone difference is actually a day zone difference between you and me. But thank you so much for taking the time to come speak with us here on the healthier tech podcast.

Lyn McLean 48:02
It’s been an absolute pleasure. I’ve enjoyed talking to you both. And thank you very much for your time and for the invitation. And I hope to talk to you again.

Stephanie Warner 48:11
It’s been lovely having you on.

Lyn McLean 48:13
Thank you have a lovely evening. You too.

Announcer 48:18
Thank you so much for listening to this episode of the healthier tech podcast. Remember to check the show notes for all the links and resources mentioned in the show. Please like and subscribe to the healthier tech podcast on Apple, Spotify or your podcast platform of choice. Get your free quickstart guide to building a healthy relationship with technology and our latest information at healthier tech.co

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

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R Blank

R Blank

R Blank is the founder of Healthier Tech and the host of “The Healthier Tech Podcast”, available iTunes, Spotify and all major podcasting platforms.

R has a long background in technology. Previously, R ran a software engineering firm in Los Angeles, producing enterprise-level solutions for blue chip clients including Medtronic, Apple, NBC, Toyota, Disney, Microsoft, the NFL, Ford, IKEA and Mattel.

In the past, he served on the faculty at the University of Southern California Viterbi School of Engineering where he taught software engineering, as well as the University of California, Santa Cruz.

He has spoken at technology conferences around the world, including in the US, Canada, New Zealand and the Netherlands, and he is the co-author of “AdvancED Flex Development” from Apress.

He has an MBA from the UCLA Anderson School of Management and received his bachelor’s degree, with honors, from Columbia University. He has also studied at Cambridge University in the UK; the University of Salamanca in Spain; and the Institute of Foreign Languages in Nizhny Novgorod, Russia.

Connect with R on LinkedIn.

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