S3 Ep 073 How Rob Metzinger is Helping People Live Longer, Healthier Lives

In this episode, Rob talks about measuring EMFs the simple changes you can make to change your exposure.
S3 Ep 073 Rob Metzinger


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Show Notes

Today, we are incredibly lucky to have Rob Metzinger on the show. He’s not only highly skilled when it comes to EMF and EMF mitigation, but he also runs a company that makes literally the best consumer-grade EMF meters available on the market today. It is a great conversation packed with information on creating a tech-life balance for a safer, healthier life in this modern tech-led world. 

S3 Ep 073 Rob Metzinger

In this episode, you will hear: 

  • Removing risks to live a longer, healthier life. 
  • Where EMF is measurable in your home and what simple changes can you make to change your exposure? 
  • How Rob got started with SLT and why creating reasonably accurate EMF meters is so difficult.
  • Differences in the different SLT EMF meters. 
  • Exposure to EMF in vehicles and traffic. 

Rob Metzinger is the visionary founder behind Safe Living Technologies (SLT), a pioneering company dedicated to helping people understand and protect themselves from the often invisible but ever-present EMF, or electromagnetic fields. 

They offer a range of top-of-the-line products designed to help identify EMF sources and intensities. Moreover, they provide laboratory-tested solutions to shield against harmful EMFs..

What’s truly remarkable about SLT is their unwavering commitment to science and verifiable measurements. They believe in the power of solid data to make informed decisions about our health and environment.

In fact, their Safe and Sound series of RF meters and accessories has garnered recognition and trust from experts around the world. Notably, the Safe and Sound Pro II RF Meter was selected by none other than world-renowned environmental toxicologist Dr. Magda Havas for her Global RF Project, which was launched in March 2021, which speaks to the immense credibility of SLT’s products and their dedication to making a positive impact.

Connect with Rob Metzinger:

Website: https://slt.co/ 

Website: https://safelivingtechnologies.com/emf-affiliate/ 

Promo Code for 5% off everything in the store

Promo Code: HealthierTech

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/safelivingtechnologies/ 

Connect with R Blank and Stephanie Warner: For more Healthier Tech Podcast episodes and to download our Healthier Tech Quick Start Guide, visit https://www.healthiertech.co and follow https://instagram.com/healthiertech

Additional Links:


Rob Metzinger 0:00
We really only sell the pieces of equipment that we’ve used and know inside and out. So we’ve did dozens or hundreds of installations with all the materials that we have. And we know what to expect. We know all the caveats, the ins and outs, and there’s not really many surprises anymore. You know, when it comes to installing a shielding product, we know basically what’s going to happen. And learning and understanding your product line is key and really important. So that’s kind of how it started. by reselling other people’s equipment, you know, picking out the best in brand, basically, best in category, going with it, promoting it, and, you know, seeing where it went. And you know that that got us through all the way to like 2017 or 2018 When we started wanting to do our own thing. And that need was because we thought there was things missing from the market that we wanted to have out there.

Announcer 0:58
Welcome to the healthier tech podcast, the show about building a healthier relationship with modern technology. Now here are your hosts R blank and Stephanie WARNER

R Blank 1:11
So today, we are incredibly lucky to have Rob Metzinger so this is he’s not only super skilled when it comes to EMF and EMF mitigation. He also runs a company that makes literally the best consumer grade EMF metres available on the market today.

Stephanie Warner 1:30
Yeah, it was a really wonderful conversation and you know, I I’m not gonna lie and might have you know, trying to keep up with everything and and understand you know, some of the things that we were talking about because we do get in a little too deep, but it was a great conversation. I’ve learned a tremendous amount and I think that our listeners will as well and for anyone new if you’ve never heard of safe living technologies, please do check them out. They have a tonne of information and like our said the really the best consumer grade metres on the market.

R Blank 2:04
Great. Yeah, so links to safe living technologies are in the shownotes and let’s get into it.

Our guest today is Rob Metzinger. The visionary founder of safe living technologies or SLT. SLT is a pioneering company dedicated to helping people understand and protect themselves from the often invisible but ever present EMF or electromagnetic fields. They offer a range of top of the line products designed to help identify EMF sources and intensities. Moreover, they provide laboratory tested solutions to shield against these fields. What’s truly remarkable about SLT is their unwavering commitment to science and verifiable measurements. They believe in the power of solid data to make informed decisions about our health and environment. In fact, their safe and sound series of RF metres and accessories has garnered recognition and trust from experts around the world. Notably, the safe and sound Pro to RF metre was selected by none other than world renowned environmental toxicologist Dr. Magda Havas for her global RF project, which was launched in March 2021, which speaks to the immense credibility of SLTs products and their dedication to making a positive impact. welcome, Rob. Thanks, sir.

Rob Metzinger 3:22
Nice to see you guys again, and great to be here.

R Blank 3:24
Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. Yeah, it is nice to this is our I don’t even remember now at least second conversation in recent, no. Third, a recent conversation. And once again, thank you so much for your support for the healthier Tech Summit.

Rob Metzinger 3:39
You’re welcome. My pleasure to help you get the word out about electromagnetic pollution. Yeah, it’s all it’s all part of it. And I appreciate what you guys do as well.

R Blank 3:50
Thank you. So one thing, we’ll definitely get to your metres one thing I realised we didn’t touch on too much during your presentation at the summit, was how you got into this area, it seems like everyone I meet who, who is a BBC or an EMRs. That is a building biology, environmental consultant or electromagnetic radiation specialists from the building Biology Institute. Everyone has their own unique creation story and a unique set of background history that led them to this point. So maybe you could start by telling us sharing with us some of yours. Oh, sure.

Rob Metzinger 4:29
Happy to do that. And, and, you know, first of all, just starting off in the electronics business in the 80s. I never would have thought I’d be at this point in my career, you know, focusing on EMF like back then, you know, in tech school, you looked at, you know, we worked with oscilloscope spectrum analyzers and things and we saw, you know, the fuzz on the 60 hertz sine wave and the profs really knew nothing about that. They just call that noise, and then kind of just moved on, but That’s kind of what we’re dealing with. Right now, like all the noise on power lines, you know, shutting, shutting off power RF coupling on to all these things, you know, the vast RF in our fields. Yeah, it’s it’s just I never thought I’d be at this point, but it’s it’s all, you know, I started off as a computer service engineer and went around servicing various businesses and repairing their computer equipment issues, kind of more hardware, but you know, in the IT world in general, so I understood, you know, you know, current and voltage and electricity fairly well through the being electronics engineering technologist, and you know, how to design electronic circuits and such. And so this is all the background that I needed to, for this to sink in really, you know, in the late 90s, my father fell ill. And, you know, we had to look for alternative health care measures to try and take care of him. And during that journey, one of the one I follow it employees at a company that I service was into alternative health care. And he said, you know, this is us working on different things, aspects of his health, every time I saw him, and this time, it kind of interests me, he was wanting to get his mercury amalgams removed from his mouth, because in our days, they, they were all for these mercury amalgams, and the silver fillings and all that type of stuff. So it basically filled all of our house with these mercury and silver fillings. So my goal was to have in my wife to have them removed by the time we were 40. And we successfully did that. So hopefully, that’ll help later on in life, in our later years. That’s the way I kind of look at, you know, reducing your exposure to EMF too. So it’s those last, you know, five or 10 years of your life you want, you know, high quality of life, if possible. So I think removing as many risks as you can, kind of factors into that. So, yeah, so we so we had that done. And during the process, I had to go to the dentist, he was in Toronto. Unfortunately, he’s passed away now. But he saw me once a month and removed a different feeling once a month, he had a and one thing that caught my attention, too, he measured voltages in my mouth to with a voltmeter, while measuring the voltage between my fillings to determine which ones he was going to remove first. That really, really made me caught my eye and made me think. And then one of the times I came back as well, he went to Germany, because let’s face it, the Europeans are much farther ahead with us. And then we are and so he goes to conferences there and tries to educate himself all the time just to keep up with the times for for his profession of dentistry, and other things, too. So he came back with an EMF metre. It measured AC electric, AC, magnetic and RF. And it just had basically a series of lights on them. So he said, Rob, they said, I needed to understand this, they talked about I don’t understand, can you take this home and and measure it, and then get back to me the next month I go back for you know, they’re getting another feeling removed? And I said, Yeah, no problem. So I took it home and walked around my home, and it just lit up like a Christmas tree, like, all the red lights are on and I’m going what’s going on here, like what does this actually do. So then I started digging online, to try and figure all this stuff out. And, you know, basically started eliminating things like turning off a cordless phone was was my main issue, having a cordless phone in the sleeping area, you know, I unplug that and all of a sudden my lights are green for RF. And then for magnetic fields. They weren’t that bad because we live out in the country. And we have our wiring is fairly good. And you know, it only occurred when I went close to an appliance. So I didn’t think that was a big issue. Just stay away from appliances, right? You don’t want to park yourself there for long periods of time. And then the electric component. I started unplugging things, extension cords and shutting off breakers primarily. And then I got green lights on that. So it’s like, okay, I get I get this, you know, this is all measurable. And it’s quantifiable, and it can be reproduced. So I thought this is pretty interesting. So I took it back to him explain how it worked. And you know, we continued on but from that day forward, this this whole electromagnetic pollution really caught my attention. And then I used to shut off circuit breakers in my sleeping area all the time. So instead of walking up and down the stairs, I got lazy and I wanted to find a solution for that. So there’s something called an automatic demand switch. And it basically automatically switch electricity off, off or on depending on Man, so I have all the sleeping areas in my house wired with that. And through that I met some other people. And you know, then we started talking together wanting to work together a little bit. And then we had to try to find a standard to measure up to so something to base the business around. And I originally had another partner, which unfortunately didn’t work out. But I learned a lot from that situation and then formed safe living technologies. And the basis for the company was building biology guidelines. So we needed a reference that was strict enough that was going to assist electrically sensitive people. And I felt that building biology was the way to go. So that’s kind of the way we’ve we’ve progressed and built the business around building biology principles and guidelines. And you know, if we can get down to those levels, you know, we can make an electrically sensitive person more comfortable.

R Blank 11:00
That’s it. So you started SLT before your BVI education?

Rob Metzinger 11:05
No, I in 2003, I took my first electromagnetic radio, okay, course. Yeah. So that was my first course. And I was introduced to the instructors, Larry Gustin as part burgomaster, who have done it for previously another 10 years before me as well. So, you know, they’ve gained a lot of knowledge. And it was just amazing getting all that information for from them, because I had so many questions in my head, you know, missing little pieces, and in the building biology group really filled in those missing pieces. So it kind of all meshed together nicely. And it all started making sense to me that that’s

R Blank 11:45
where you always sort of because you described your prior history as being an employee, were you always sort of entrepreneurially driven or once you uncovered this EMF issue, you felt really motivated that you had to do something about it. And the only way to do that would be on your own.

Rob Metzinger 12:00
Right, no, I had a, an independent electronics consulting company as well, too. Okay, um, for for about 17 years, actually. And it kind of overlapped with the development of safe living technologies. Because, you know, in the early 2000s, not a lot of people really knew about this. So it was kind of a building process. And it wasn’t quite a full time thing until around 2008 or 2009. And then at that point, I just decided to take it full time. I haven’t looked back since.

R Blank 12:35
Yeah, yeah. I mean, not not directly comparing our histories, but I started sy be about four years before actually went full time with with swipey. And, you know, started on the side, and you see what happens, and then eventually you’re like, well, either I’m going to do it, or I’m not going to do it, like you got to do one or the other. And so what did SLT look like when you started? Right? Because, for instance, now you have these incredibly high end metres, but I’m assuming you didn’t start by creating your own metres. So what what was the the service and or product offering at the time when you started SLT, right?

Rob Metzinger 13:13
Well, primarily, you know, in the early 2000s, we did a lot of home surveys. So we went to people’s homes, did the inspections and, you know, tried to try to fix things and by doing that, you know, understood what we needed in order to fix these things. So, so then we started hunting for products. So you know, we wanted wanted to find the best metre company that we thought in the world existed. And that turned out to be gigahertz solutions at the time. So we partnered up with them B claim came their exclusive distributor for North America. And we still are to this day. And you know, that was a key having having the right measuring equipment. So that really set us down down a good path for measurement. And then we partnered up with some fabric companies, some paint companies, in order to get those types of materials on, on board, and to work with them every day to because we really only sell the pieces of equipment that we’ve used and know inside and out. So we’ve did dozens or hundreds of installations with all the materials that we have. And we know what to expect. We know all the caveats, the ins and outs, and there’s not really many surprises anymore. You know, when it comes to installing a shielding product, we know basically what’s going to happen. And learning and understanding your product line is key and really important. So that’s kind of how it started. by reselling other people’s equipment, you know, picking out the best in brand, basically, best in category, going with it promoting it and you know, seeing where it went. And you know that that got us through all the way to like 2017 or 2018 When we started wanting to do our own thing. And that need was because we thought there was things missing from the market that we wanted to have out there. Yeah,

Stephanie Warner 15:08
I actually wanted to ask what, what, what really makes your what makes your metres different than others and I listening to your story, I assume there was some something’s missing. And I was wondering if you could talk a little bit about that.

Rob Metzinger 15:22
Right, yeah. So, you know, having, having measuring equipment that can measure down to building biology guidelines is key, and it’s really difficult to do. And basically, the gigahertz solutions, metres can do it. And that’s what they’re designed for. They’re designed for building biologists so, so we wanted to kind of follow along those those types of standards as well. So really difficult because the gigahertz Solutions has done such a good job with it. But we also wanted to combine like, we wanted to build a one metre instead of multiple metres, to measure things as well. Because gigahertz solutions, the RF metres are very precise. And you can only do that if you’re looking at a small frequency band. So in order to measure, you know, from 100 megahertz to eight gigahertz, you need two pieces of equipment to do it. So we saw that was a challenge out there. And we have feedback that people didn’t want to carry around two metres, especially ones with antennas on them. So this led us to the idea of just building a simple basic RF metre that covers a wide range. And something that’s simple to use has LEDs on it indicates slight, you know, extreme and values on it. So it’s you can have a quick reference just by looking at LEDs as well as getting getting the exact numbers as well. Right. So that’s kind of the story started with with the the classic, which has the four lights, correct? That’s correct. So that’s how we started and we had that around for a few years and just playing with it before we went to market with it. You know, it didn’t react to the very sensitive areas in my home because I knew it measures, I knew the levels are below one microwatts per square metre. So at first, our classic could not measure that level, and it wasn’t detecting anything. And I said, this isn’t good enough, like we have to get down below one micro watt per square metre to try and detect these things. So that invoked a little bit more of a challenge for engineers, and then we work together to try and get that developed. And it took about another four or five months, but we figured out how to make that work. And it’s like, wow, if we can make that, that work. That’s fantastic. Now we just got to see some numbers, and try and get that to work. And then that was kind of kind of the next step. And kind of went from there.

Stephanie Warner 17:48
Did you start with be with your market target being BVIs? are consumers? Normal consumers,

R Blank 17:58
building biologists are normal.

Stephanie Warner 18:05
normies like me?

Rob Metzinger 18:09
Right, we want to, we wanted to simplify this thing. So yeah, for building biology as well, you know, gigahertz and solutions metres are the best. And, you know, that’s what we want people to purchase, if they go through the building biology programme, it will serve their purpose the best. But, you know, not everybody can afford that investment at first. So wanted to make something that they that the person that was didn’t want to invest heavily in could still do a reasonably good job with that piece of equipment. So that’s kind of the idea behind it. Plus, we wanted to appeal to the general public with a simple to use, you know, kind of attractive looking metre, but that is a challenge. So I don’t know if the main stream really is into this. Like our building biologists, you know, they kind of spread the word around and you know, get pique people’s interest and curiosity and kind of get people to get more involved in this type of thing. But, you know, in general, that’s, that’s about it.

R Blank 19:14
And so from the classic, you then went to the Pro, which is the version where you can actually see the detected levels. Yeah, that’s correct. Yes. Yeah. And now the Pro two. That’s right.

Rob Metzinger 19:27
Yes. I just some slight differences there. I’m just trying to remember what they are. I can’t remember.

R Blank 19:34
No worries. spot there. But yeah, I

Rob Metzinger 19:39
think we did a pretty reasonable job with the first version just kind of fine tuned it in the pro Pro two. And then the next one will be the Pro to pro three in the future. And we’re actually looking at the eight gigahertz to 20 gigahertz as well too. So we want to try and do some I think with that as well, because there’s sections of the spectrum missing that, you know, we can buy, we can supply affordable measuring equipment to, and that’s, that’s one of the regions. So we’ve got the 20 to 40 covered with our millimetre wave metre. We want to go above that as well, too. But that’s that’s the challenge at this point in time, it’ll happen in the future, but not exactly at this moment.

R Blank 20:21
Yeah, so I want to definitely get back to the millimetre wave. Before we do though there was another metre that you released before the millimetre wave and you call it the mike the micro? Oh,

Rob Metzinger 20:33
yes, that’s, that’s correct. Yes. Actually just have it sitting here. And it’s, um, it is a micro like it’s a really small, a small device. It’s a wearable RF detector, basically, that kind of vibrates once you hit a certain threshold of RF. So the idea was, for electrically sensitive people, you know, to protect themselves when they’re in unknown environments, it would alarm you to elevated exposures. And, you know, you don’t let you get in and out of someplace if there’s a high exposure.

R Blank 21:07
And is that based off of the, the BVIs? High or extreme?

Rob Metzinger 21:15
It is, whatever, it’s adjustable. It’s a variable threshold, you can set. So you can set it at 10 microwatts per square metre, or 100 1000 10,000 100,000. Oh, that’s cool. Yeah, whatever level you you desire.

R Blank 21:29
And how long does it last on the charge? It’ll last a day

Rob Metzinger 21:33
and a half, if it’s used, if it’s used heavily. And if it doesn’t go off, is it just in sensing mode? They can last, you know, a few weeks? Oh, typically, you know, we recommend just charging it up every night after if you’re using it every day, charge it up every night, just like kind of like your these bad things called cell phones.

R Blank 21:57
And yeah, I actually I, you folks are running a contest right now to win one of those. So I entered that this week. So fingers, fingers crossed. Okay, so now we’re back to what you brought up just a minute ago, the millimetre wave, which is your your newest product? And so as we were talking about the safe and sound classic, and pro, those were designed, essentially, to be better versions for the consumer grade for what’s available. But when we come to the millimetre wave product, this is the only consumer option available at this time. Right? And because the purpose is measuring a pretty wide right, you said What is it 20 to 40 gigahertz of the 5g spectrum?

Rob Metzinger 22:49
That’s correct. Yes, it is the the only metre on the market that will do that range, and which is a huge range. And it’s a huge engineering challenge that we overcame in order to do that, because we’ve actually got it to measure down below one microwatts per square metre as well with our, with our special high gain horn antenna. So we’ve Yeah, that was it took us about eight or nine months to get that the way we wanted it. And to do that we had to develop our own testing chamber. And the very good thing was that, you know, we had our own certified equipment to measure it. But we always want a third party calibration to verify everything. So we just got that back last week, and actually, and it almost matched exactly of what our chamber told us as well. So we’re really congratulations. Really? Yeah, thank you. We’re really happy about that. And there’s always variability from one chamber to the next. But more or less, the results are virtually virtually identical. So we’ll have those, those third party testing reports posted on our website as well too, so that, you know, just to give more confidence to people that, you know, it isn’t doing what it’s what we say it’s doing, and the only way you can do that is with third party testing.

R Blank 24:07
And forgive me if I’m mistaken on this, but this is your first the millimetre wave metre is the first of your metres that comes that has accessory options, is that correct?

Rob Metzinger 24:21
That’s correct. Yes, everything else has the antenna built into it. We found that we were when we designed the millimetre wave metre. Unless we stuck the antenna outside it just was not sensitive enough to get down to the levels we wanted it to read. So okay, we had to go with external antennas, and you know, design our own antennas in order to do that.

R Blank 24:43
Now, what this is going to someone like you this is going to sound stupid, but for for my own edification and expressed in a way that maybe our listeners would understand. Why is this so hard? hard to make metres that are reasonably accurate.

Rob Metzinger 25:05
Why is it so hard? Well, it’s just, you know, finding the correct electronics finding the right antennas, the correct antenna design. When you when we start working with the millimetre wave metre, and frequencies above, you know, 10 or 15 gigahertz, the wavelength is so small. So so many things can make a difference when you’re designing and making these metres the substrate of the circuit board like we can’t, you couldn’t use a standard fibreglass circuit board. For this, it had to be a special high frequency RF material. So in order to, to measure Millimetre waves effectively, because the standard fibreglass just had, believe it or not, had too much conductivity that interfered with these high frequency signals. So we had to get a special substrate in order to make that on. And then even positioning the positioning of that piece in the metre made a huge difference, you know, if you moved it a centimetre one way or the other way. Or, if you use screws to attach it, every screw that you put in affected the reading in some way. millimetre wave signals couple on to everything, and they just get transferred around. So that that was part of the challenge as well. And then, you know, the signals are so small, you have to amplify it. So finding the right amplifiers to enhance the signal. So you can do measurement, do actual measurements on the signal, because it’s so small, and once you start amplifying it, you start amplifying noise. So, so that’s a huge challenge with us too. And, you know, we decided early on that the antenna inside was not going to work and we created one to move on the to mount on the outside of it. And even believe it or not, putting the final sticker on the face of the metre, changed the whole antenna reception pattern and it actually worked in our favour, it actually increased our frequency range down to around 20 gigs. So kind of a bittersweet, bittersweet ending to that story. But yeah, it’s just, it’s just a challenge. And I gotta take my hat’s off to my engineering team, David and Bruce, who work patiently with us to try and work all these bugs out.

Stephanie Warner 27:27
So I have a I have a follow up and I need to pull this back a little bit to the content to the Normie consumer side will say. So we were talking about the millimetre the new the new millimetre wave metre. And I know from experience and from using your metre your products that you have this safe and so safe and sound Pro two, is this a new? Is this a something an upgraded version, a new version, or is this a different use case,

Rob Metzinger 27:56
it is definitely a totally different animal than the Pro to the millimetre wave is its own creation, the only thing similar is basically the way it displays the number. So we’re a little bit ahead of the game by using that technology, which already developed the actual digital part of the metre, which is able to process the signal and to display it on a metre. But yeah, the it’s the whole intent of part of it, it’s the whole focusing on this higher frequency that makes it totally, totally different. And we’ll see that again, with the the eight to 20 gigahertz metre that we’re going to be looking at, you know, we can use the base to display the values, which we were pretty happy with and people seem pretty happy with but it’s the internal design of the RF chip and the the internal antenna that needs to change and be focused more on the specific frequency that we wanted to focus on, like in this case, eight to 20 gigahertz.

R Blank 28:57
And it’s the display of the numbers is is has carried over. But it’s also essentially the entire form factor for it. So from from the consumer perspective, it definitely feels like these are two metres from the same company. So they’re the same size. Maybe I actually I don’t know for sure, because I haven’t I haven’t held the millimetre wave I have the safe and sound pro too. But from the photos, they look the same size, the same shape. The lights are in the same place. And so I think keeping keeping the interface consistent from the consumer side is was a really smart move

Rob Metzinger 29:33
area right? And here’s a basic example of the Millom millimetre wave metre here and then the Pro two here, so Yeah, same basic case, but the internal components are different. Yes.

R Blank 29:47
And so the millimetre wave and this is again this is this is really for the edification of our listeners. You called it the millimetre wave because of I mean As RF or radio frequency each wave has has a length. And when you get to the millimetre wave the ones where where the wavelength is, on the scale of a millimetre, that’s what consumers would be calling 5g Correct?

Rob Metzinger 30:16
Um, yes, that’s where we kind of tend to look at where 5g Or where the Millimetre waves begin. They can begin around 20 or 30, gigahertz and upwards. So that’s kind of the kind of the buzzword around 5g. It’s the millimetre wave way. Yeah.

R Blank 30:35
And if I can ask, because this this I’m actually very curious about why didn’t you call it the 5g metre?

Rob Metzinger 30:44
That’s a good question.

R Blank 30:48
Sorry, I assume that that was an intentional, intentional thing.

Rob Metzinger 30:54
It could have went either way. It really is. Okay. I guess it’s, you know, when we when we need metres, there’s a name that kind of pops into our mouths even before we want to finalise what it really is. And, you know, that’s kind of just what evolved naturally between us developing it and you know, same with the different antennas we have or we have kind of a semi omni directional antenna, which is this little black one and you know, we call it stubby

R Blank 31:23
isn’t that a Pixar character? EMF metre come to life.

Rob Metzinger 31:30
The other antenna was the horn metre. So you can you can imagine what some of the names for that was, but they’re trying to have fun do and we’re developing it so it’s all about, you know, we love what we’re doing. And it’s, you know, it is work, but it almost doesn’t seem like work because it’s, it’s, we enjoy doing it.

R Blank 31:54
So as we alluded to, in the intro, Dr. Havas is running a, what I believe she refers to as a citizen science project at global EMF dotnet, which we also talked about recently at the healthier Tech Summit with Dr. Havas. And that’s where people can submit readings, RF readings from around the world and say, Hey, I was at this corner. And this is what I measured. And but in order for someone to participate in this project project, anyone can participate. But they have to have one of your metres. Is that at bat, correct?

Rob Metzinger 32:33
That’s correct. So yeah, originally, it was the the safe and sound Pro two and the safe and sound Pro. And then, just recently, she is starting the millimetre millimetre wave, gather a data gathering process. So yes, both of those metres would be used in that. That type of data gathering situation and yeah, we’re, we’re just ecstatic that Magda is on board with it. And you know, decided to go with our metres. So couldn’t be happier with that.

R Blank 33:05
Yeah, no, that’s really cool. And I will also say, because as you know, I speak to several building biologists just in the course of doing my work. And yours are the metres that they hands down, recommend for all consumers, the number one, so I never speak with anybody who says, you know, at least from the consumer grade, that there’s a different metre that anybody should be considering. So well, well done on that.

Rob Metzinger 33:34
Thank you. And, you know, sometimes you get lucky. And let me say that because you probably know this as well, too. And product development, nothing’s a sure thing. And yeah, you can get, you know, one hit one hit out of every four that you develop your, I think you’re doing well. It’s just really difficult to do. And you just don’t know what consumers are going to purchase or not purchase or like. So it’s a process. And you just got to go through it. Figure it out.

Stephanie Warner 34:05
Yeah, absolutely. So I want to shift gears a little bit. And that is a pun that you won’t get just yet, but I missed it. I was I watched your your presentation at the healthier Tech Summit. And there’s a question that we get so often from customers. And that is questions about how about car emissions and about, you know, buying cars with search, what they should be looking for. And they’re concerned about how to protect themselves, how to measure and then how to protect themselves from smart cars, because it’s getting increasingly difficult to even buy a car that doesn’t have all of these bells and whistles. So I’m wondering, I know this is a big topic. So I’m wondering if you could pass if you could summarise some of the testing that you guys have done and what you what you found and if there’s anything super phrasing that you found when you weren’t started doing testing on cars. Sure.

Rob Metzinger 35:04
Yeah, I haven’t spent a lot of time measuring vehicles. It’s mostly mostly home environments and work environments. But I guess you could attack the car situation from two points of view, if you look at the the radio frequency part of it. The bottom line is when you’re assessing a vehicle, things change almost every year, even with the same model of vehicle like, you know, a Toyota Corolla changes every year, almost every year, every year, every second year, each year, they come up with a new model of that. So it’s really tough to generalise and pick out a healthy car. There may be some models, but they keep changing from year after year. So if you’re recommending it, you’re going to have to go back and say, Well, maybe a 19, or a 2026, or, sorry, a 2016, or 2015 of this x brand is probably the best you can do. But it’s just that they change all the time. So individual measurements for every car, I would suggest so having your own set of metres that can measure radio frequency, AC magnetic fields, primarily. So getting back to the topic of radio frequency, now there’s so many transmitters built in the cars these days, the Wi Fi hotspots, the Bluetooth inside the vehicle, you know the possible cellular antenna connections, they can be mounted on the mirrors or on the roof. So yeah, the amount of RF you’re gonna get exposed to in a car is pretty significant. And now we are actually adding these Millimetre waves to it as well. They’re primarily transmitting outwards from the car, but the cabinet is filled up with you know, Bluetooth, probably your cell phone, so you know, signals below six gigahertz and then we have the Millimetre waves outside which are transmitting. And we also have other vehicles which are emitting these Millimetre waves. So if you’re stuck in traffic, you’re gonna get hit with those. So the only way you can assess your exposure is basically to have a metre, so the safe and sound Pro two, four inside devices and, you know, some of these devices, if you’re fortunate enough, you can, you can turn them off through your car’s Control Panel, many times, many of the new vehicles, it’s, it’s more difficult to do that or impossible to do that. So to do that, to do that, maybe going back to the manufacturer, and you know, having them remove some of the transmission modules, but sometimes if you do that, you can actually affect other systems in your car, because it’s a whole, it’s not just an RF module, it’s a module embedded in something else that has to be removed. And you may lose other features of your car as well which is and your

R Blank 37:53
warranty perhaps, and your

Rob Metzinger 37:55
warranty too and you know, they they be more hesitant to do that because it may be involved in one of the safety systems in the vehicle to so they they may not want to do that and you know, you can you can try and locate where the transmitter is and then apply you know, aluminium foil shielding or shielding fabrics around it perhaps to kind of limit to kind of dampen the, the amount of RF that comes in you know, with with Millimetre waves and the their emissions it’s more of the other vehicles that you have to worry about. But now Now speaking about electric and magnetic fields, so primarily see magnetic fields in vehicles, you know, they radiate off of spinning motors are spinning coils of wire, and wiring harnesses inside the car as well. So it’s a challenge to really to shield those wires properly and to make make it friendly for an electrically sensitive person. So it’s all about finding the right car for you and that’s involved that involves having a metre in you know, mapping out three or four vehicles that you want going into them measuring them and saying okay, out of these four, this one’s better. Is it good enough? Or is it not? And if not, then you pick out three or four more you go and do the test and just kind of rinse and repeat do the same process and you know, try to try to figure out which one is better and Professor Magna habits as well has some data on that too. People citizen scientists are measuring their vehicles at a global emf.net I believe and you can check into some of her research about that as well too. So, I know she wants

R Blank 39:38
so. So option number one is to purchase a Model T Ford and then if that is not possible to like you say select a few models of cars and then take one of your SLT are safe and sound metres with you as you go value Wait, these cars, and we covered a bunch of these metres today. So right before we wrap I would like to just and so for anyone who’s watching on, on on YouTube, and my share screen is off screen, there we go. For anyone who’s watching on YouTube, I’m here at safe living technologies.com, which you can also find at sl t.co. And we’ll have those links in the show notes. So we started by talking about the classic. And this is how, actually we didn’t talk about but it goes up to eight, you said 100 megahertz eight gigahertz, correct. 200 to eight, yes, 200 megahertz to eight gigahertz. So that’s for those who don’t know these frequencies, that’s what we would maybe refer to as traditional RF spectrum, the things that came from cordless phones, and cell phones and Wi Fi, and all of these things that we were thinking about Before 5g came along. And this will tell you, you can see, you know, basically what level of by order of magnitude, how much RF is going to be around there. And these these are recommendations from the building Biology Institute. To go a step higher, you’d go with the safe and sound Pro, which has a lot of the same insides as the classic, except you also get actual detailed readings, including peak maximum and average. And it gives you some more controls on the interface. The the alarm metre is this micro that we discussed, which is the wrist worn metre, which I didn’t actually realise until today, you can programme what level you want to find you want to be alerted at. And then you can just wear it around and it will go off if you’re if you’re exposed to that level or not. And then the new one that we focused on today is the millimetre wave, which starts at 20 gigahertz and goes up to 40 gigahertz. And that is what I have been short handing as as the 5g metre. And it has a couple of different options for antennas, depending on on how much you wish to invest in how you want to use the product. did. Did I do a decent summary there for you, Rob? Or is there something you’d like to add?

Rob Metzinger 42:18
No, very, very well done are? Yes. Thank you.

R Blank 42:24
So So again, the URL is sl t.co. And Rob, I think your team has created a coupon to save 5% Just enter healthier tech at checkout. And we will have that in the show notes. So you don’t need to worry about writing down URLs or coupon codes. Rob, thank you again, for taking the time to come join us on the podcast. Thank you again for your support of the summit. Thank you again, for taking the time to both appear at the summit on a talk and on a live panel. And on behalf of the entire community. Thank you for making all of these investments to create these, these industry leading metres

Rob Metzinger 43:03
are Thank you very much, Stephanie. Thanks. Thanks again. And great, great to be with you guys and hope to do many more of these things with you guys in the future. You guys are getting a lot of information to a lot of people that needs to get out. And I appreciate that too.

R Blank 43:22
Thank you, mate. Have a great day. Yeah, it’s been great.

Rob Metzinger 43:25
Thanks. Take care.

Announcer 43:27
Thank you so much for listening to this episode of the healthier tech podcast. Remember to check the show notes for all the links and resources mentioned in the show. Please like and subscribe to the healthier tech podcast on Apple, Spotify or your podcast platform of choice. Get your free quickstart guide to building a healthy relationship with technology and our latest information at healthier tech.co

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

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R Blank

R Blank

R Blank is the founder of Healthier Tech and the host of “The Healthier Tech Podcast”, available iTunes, Spotify and all major podcasting platforms.

R has a long background in technology. Previously, R ran a software engineering firm in Los Angeles, producing enterprise-level solutions for blue chip clients including Medtronic, Apple, NBC, Toyota, Disney, Microsoft, the NFL, Ford, IKEA and Mattel.

In the past, he served on the faculty at the University of Southern California Viterbi School of Engineering where he taught software engineering, as well as the University of California, Santa Cruz.

He has spoken at technology conferences around the world, including in the US, Canada, New Zealand and the Netherlands, and he is the co-author of “AdvancED Flex Development” from Apress.

He has an MBA from the UCLA Anderson School of Management and received his bachelor’s degree, with honors, from Columbia University. He has also studied at Cambridge University in the UK; the University of Salamanca in Spain; and the Institute of Foreign Languages in Nizhny Novgorod, Russia.

Connect with R on LinkedIn.

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